We tackle a article from Meridian Magazine
How Will Children Know the Truth About Marriage If We Don’t Teach Them? By Wendy Asay · May 10, 2015
she syas this – “We can help our youth discern the truth regarding those claims by giving them solid information and reasoned arguments from secular as well as religious sources.”
I show that it is anything but that from a LDS perspective.
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Good podcast. You have some very good points. I too agree with looking at our polygamist (and polyandrous) past compared with gay marriage I think gay marriage comes out as being less controlling and even abusive.
I know it is stating the obvious, but this topic is getting more and more divisive within the church and I don’t see it calming down. It seems to me that it will cause a schism if it stays the current course and this would be many people leaving as they can’t see this (as they see it) “discrimination” coming from God. Or if the church does change, some more “fundamentalist” groups splitting off. It has happened in our history at every one of these major issues such as Polygamy and the issue of Blacks in the church.
In the past the brethren have seen the writing on the wall that the current course was not an option and sought God’s will on what to do. I am hopeful it will happen again.
Thanks for this podcast, Bill. The fact that some people make same-sex marriage the biggest issue dealing with the family is angering to me. I don’t think I’d be able to do a podcast like this and remain anywhere near as calm as you do, so many compliments to you for that! The article, and the website it uses for its sources, significantly downplays any other problems facing families in the United States and in the world. Parents abandoning, abusing, and abdicating responsibility for their children is a problem that is rampant in this country. I don’t understand how people think it’s a bigger problem that there are people who actually *want* to get married and raise children. I really don’t understand how gay people could ruin families any more than we straight people already have.
Do scriptures have examples of same sex marriage?
If this has been an issue through out all time and history was it only surfacing until now?
good question. The answer is above my pay grade. David Bokovoy might be one to ask. Closest we have is Jesus himself in Math 19: 10 ¶His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.
One of your best podcasts! Well done. To be frank, it is people with attitudes like her that are driving families like ours out of the church. Some days I think that is the goal of the church. If there were no gay people in it there wouldn’t be any problems. To be frank, it is a toxic and abusive environment. For the mental well being of our son and as a mater of integrity we have left the church. Being gay is not a choice. Being Mormon is.
Thank You for your comment
Thoughtful podcast. In an ideal world, a loving family of a mom and dad and kids seems to optimize a nurturing and healthly environment. But we don’t live in an ideal world of Ozzie and Harriet. There are broken homes, divorced families, and yes, gay people who seek for happiness and fulfillment in relationships. And some of those same-sex individuals want stability and love in a committed relationship. Wouldn’t such committed same-sex couples add to societal stability? Rather than tearing down our society, I believe allowing them the same legal rights to marry the partner of their choice would encourage more committed relationships, which would benefit society. Also, allowing a loving couple (same-sex or hetero) the right to care for, love, and raise children can only be regarded as laudable and positive for children who might be lost in an uncaring system of foster care, or worse. This argument made in the article sounds good, but is a smoke screen for continued unequal treatment of same-sex attracted folks. Your comments about polygamy shows how short our memory is as a church.
your welcome Mark!
I guess I’m going to be the only one to disagree with you on this. While I’m for committed same sex couples who choose to live together to have the same rights and heterosexual couples who marry I am totally against defining marriage as the uniting of consenting adults for personal gratification. (By the way I have a sibling who is part of the LBFT community who I love dearly and support her in every way I can, but I have given the same advice.) Immanual Kant said that one way to determine what is moral is to imagine what would happen if every person in the world did whatever a person is considering. I know this sounds trite but it’s still true, if every person was in a same sex relationship the human race would die off in one generation.
I would also like some confirmation of how you arrive at the statistic of 60% of homeless children in Salt Lake are homeless because they’ve been kicked out of their home for being gay. To me this sounds like a statistic that activists give without any backing. Just like the statistic that there are 11 million illegal aliens, which is the same number that has been thrown around for 20 years. I’m not saying it’s not so I’m just wondering how that numbers been arrived at.
Finally it was refreshing to hear you for once admit that you have no evidence what the result of being in a polygamous family was like. I’ve read some of the history of polygamous families, and while there is some evidence of people being dissatisfied with the arrangements, most famously one of Brigham Young’s wives wrote an expose, most of the accounts seem positive or neutral.
At least two of the current apostles were raised in single mother homes. Would you use that as evidence that single parent home are ideal? One of the most powerful statements I’ve ever heard about this was a person who wrote (and I’m sorry that I can’t reference this) that there is a world of difference in saying that your father loved you very much but was killed in an accident, and your father loved you very much but just couldn’t be bothered to stay around to raise you. The same can be said about the arrangements in polygamous marriages, but usually cannot be said about how children arrive in a same sex marriage.
I respect your view though I disagree at least in part.